July 5, 2014

Seeking A Third (part one)
S/S Death Adder Hatchling (Poison Fang, Puncture Wound, Blinding Poison)
H/H Spirit Crab (Snap, Surge, Shell Shield)

Lately my meta has gotten more competitive. Rather than rise to the challenge and come up with new and creative ways to beat the meta I’ve stooped to using one of the strongest pets around, the Death Adder Hatchling. I’ve also found that my trusty old Spirit Crab from 5.3 can actually do well against many of the 5.4 powerhouse teams. Together these two make a pretty vicious combo: the adder uses its OP move set to inflict damage while the Spirit Crab soaks incoming damage while dishing out a reasonable amount of its own. But what about a third pet?

I think today I would like to to make a really competitive team with the two pets listed above, so I’ll have to think carefully about what the third pet will be. To make a really competitive team I’ll have to consider all of the other super teams and super pets out there in the meta and ways to counter them. Of course no one team can counter everything (or everyone would use that) but I’ll try to choose pets that hopefully counter multiple super pets and super teams out there.

Here’s what needs to be countered:

Unborn Val’kyrs – With these overused and hyper useful undead pets appearing in about one in every four battle you better have a counter for them. I’m actually a little less worried about these than you would expect because of the crab and snake. While neither is a true valk counter I’ve been dealing with them by blinding, poisoning then swapping to the crab and shielding. Not optimal by any means, but so far it has been somewhat effective. The valk resurrects with poison ticking and an adder waiting for it while the crab took less damage thanks to the shield.

Death Adder Hatchling – I’m not the only one running around with an overpowered snake. My Spirit Crab’s ability to outlast these things is one of the reason I’m back in love with it.

Anubisath Idol– Surely this pet is my nemesis with my penchant for DoTs and multi-attacks. I need either a damage buff to break through sandstorm or some hard hitting undead attacks.

Lil’ Ragnaros – There’s a thread on the forums right now about how this pet isn’t anything special. I respectfully disagree. Traps are in need of a tweak just as much as Haunt and adders imo. There are only two ways that I know of how to make sure the trap doesn’t ruin your day: critters and arcane winds. Critters are sounding good right about now.

Sunlight – While not all that common, it’s something I need to consider when choosing a third pet. Back when I ran Whirlpool I had an easier time with sunlight elementals but Surge just can’t out damage Photosynthesis fast enough. A Blossoming Ancient will laugh at my adder, even with the beast racial activated early. Another pet store pet worth mentioning, interesting.

AoE – There’s not much you can really do against AoE teams (besides sandstorm) but hope they don’t kill your pets on the back line. I already have one beefy pet but the adder is fragile. A second high health pet should do the trick while I keep my adder out front to sacrifice itself while inflicting the pain.

Clonedance – One of the hardest teams to counter in my opinion, hence one of the best teams around. A cleanse for the Cyclone or some aquatic damage from a non-aquatic pet is a decent approach.

Flying Pets – With the speed to make the adder’s blind less effective and taking less damage from beast attacks (of which I already have four) flyers are a major pain for my combo. My Spirit Crab can often take them down with Surges but it wastes my soaking capabilities. I’d like some magic damage.

Emperor Crab – My Spirit Crab can beat adders, but an Emperor Crab can absolutely destroy them. This should be a priority. I should mention that I used to not fear these guys when I ran Whirlpool, but now they are much harder to take down with my undead crab. I do really need the Surge.

Decoys/Bubbles – These things just annoy the hell out of me. Am I allowed to counter things that annoy me while making competitive teams?

Consume Corpse – There’s really not much one can do about this abomination of a strategy short of loading up on critter damage. I have a triple rabbit team all set up for when I encounter a valk, Bighthawk and Stitched Pup team. I usually lose to it and come right back and stomp it. I could always go with darkness but I don’t really like that weather. Looks like another win for critters.

So you can see what I was talking about earlier, there’s no way I’m going to counter all of those things, but hopefully I can choose pets that fill multiple roles.

Before I start with new teams let me share teams that I’ve already created with the Spirit Crab/DAH combo (the third pet is listed)

Turcraben 11/8/13
P/S Highlands Turkey (Peck, Squawk, Food Coma)
Peck is useful for crabs but turkeys are more of a novelty than a competitive pet.

Brother In Claw 11/4/13
P/P Emperor Crab (Surge, Healing Wave, Shell Shield)
A solid team. I should use it more but two crabs is boring.

Kingdom Of Doing (odd that I never did a dedicated daily)
H/H Spirit Crab (Snap, Surge, Shell Shield)
An amazing team, but also boring.

Electric Pickles 12/2/13
S/S Fiendish Imp (Burn, Immolation, Nether Gate)
Another amazing team, but Nether Gate misses are often game losers. Plus this was my number one pet for a long spell in 5.4 and I’m a bit tired of it.

Making Them Pay 6/26/14
S/S Arctic Hare (Flurry, Dodge, Burrow)
This pet actually satisfies a few of the requirements above. A great team. I think I’ll be hard pressed to do better than this, but I’ll try.

Ok, here we go.

Pet 1: H/H Stone Armadillo (Scratch, Shell Shield, Infected Claw)
A critter that has strong attacks against valks and idols, what’s not to love? Well, it’s sort of an uninteresting pet when it comes to utility, but it meets multiple counter requirements. Running two 1887 hp pets is amusing.

Battle 1
vs. Murkalot, Emerald Shale Hatchling, Stone Armadillo
070514ASo I just realized that I’m going to have to bully a lot of people to test these teams and most teams are going to get facerolled by just the adder and the crab. Hopefully I’ll encounter some competitive teams to test mine against. The poor opposing Armadillo fell victim to a common mistake by critters. They see an undead and think they’re going to do big damage, only to realize too late that Snap and critters don’t mix well together. I have no problem beating Murkalot with an adder, that pet left a sour tast in my mouth from the time before it was nerfed.

Pet 2: H/H Lost Of Lordaeron (Shadow Slash, Arcane Explosion, Curse Of Doom)
I obviously have idols in mind by picking this pet. A magic attack against flyers doesn’t hurt, either. It’s also another high hp pet. It’s not going to do well against an Emperor Crab. I’ve seen a few people try to spam Arcane Explosion with this pet, using the undead racial to gain a few turns of AoE damage. It’s a good idea but never seems to work.

Battle 2
vs. Unborn Val’kyr, Swamp Croaker, Zandalari Footslasher
070514BI feel no guilt taking out an Unborn Val’kyr. I’m just so, so sick of seeing them day in and day out. This was a difficult battle, more than it needed to be thanks to a Snap miss on the raptor. Those things need to be taken out quick and that extra turn meant a ton of damage to my beefy crab. My opponent made some unnecessary swaps which made up for the Snap miss. The battle ended with an Arcane Explosion double kill on the beast and frog while Haunt was up. We need some achievements for double kills and triple kills, or at least a cool graphic flashing across the screen.

Pet 3: Sen’Jin Fetish (Breath, Wild Magic, Sear Magic)
Did someone say counter? The Sen’Jin Fetish is so good against many of the top pets in the current meta. If Sear Magic cleansed traps without setting them off it would even better. The problem I have with this team is that both the adder and mask are good starting pets against valks.

Battle 3
vs. Gilnean Raven, Nordrassil Wisp, Anubisath Idol
070514CSomeone likes rng. It worked out quite well for them as I had a Wild Magic miss in darkness and a Puncture Wound miss in sandstorm. My Sen’Jin Fetish should have defeated the bird and had an undead round to spare but the miss meant those pets cancelled each other out. The adder absolutely destroyed the Nordrassil Wisp. I remember when those things used to be decent. I brought in the crab for the idol to let the miss fest begin, except both pets hit well in the sandstorm, with the idol only missing once. I thought the adder would easily finish off the idol (which had Crush and not Demolish) but the Puncture Wound miss kept things interesting. The adder survived with a little over 100 hp.

Pet 4: P/S Jademist Dancer (Steam Vent, Rain Dance, Acid Rain)
This is for Emperor Crabs mostly. An elemental to counter an aquatic you say? Burst kills healing pets handily. And speaking of healers don’t let a sunlight team come my way.

Battle 4
vs. Dark Whelpling, ANodized Robo Cub, Scourged Whelpling
070514DOkay, now I finally feel like a bully. I’m not exactly facing the cream of the crop here. The Demolish hit enough to take my Spirit Crab out then the Dark Whelpling did a decent job against the Jademist Dancer. In the end it was my OP adder against the Scourged Whelpling that was at half health from earlier in the battle. I waited on the blind until the darkness had passed to ensure a hit and a win. With that I think I’ll call it a night. There were more pets I wanted to try as a third so I’ll make this part one and finish on another day.

16 Responses to July 5, 2014

  1. Choan says:

    Disco, we don’t need a flashy screen or achievement for double and triple kills man… Let’s think about it for a minute: AoE teams. Everyone and their mother would be out to get that achievement, so instead of Valk’s, all you would see is clone dancer bud =P

    • Discodoggy says:

      Good point. I’m actually seeing some clonedance this morning thanks to me running an adder. I guess they said “hey, if you’re going to be cheap, I can be cheaper lol”. There’s been some consume teams, too, the cheapest cheap comp from cheapsville. I am bringing out the worst in my meta. Rather than countering my adder with speed they are bringing barely counterable comps. I guess it’s time to come up with some better anti-clonedance.

  2. Choan says:

    There’s always that undead that you hate the most, to neutralize a little bit of the AoE damage and be a good third you know… Hey man, if you’re already going low on the Adder, might as well finish the job!

  3. Vek says:

    A favourite of mine, Vengeful Porcupette, ticks quite a few of those boxes.
    The Good: Truly eats DAH. I faced a triple S/S DAH team, luckily I had one Vengeful in my team. It took out the first one, as is normal. Managed with two consecutive triple-hit Flank attacks to take out the second as well, usually leaves a second one badly hurt. And hit the third one, making my opponent forfeit.

    It has critter attacks, and Flank does between 400-600+ or so on Undead/Val’kyr. Can also shield a nice part of a CoD and two Haunt ticks, with Spirit Spikes.

    Flying. Spirit Spikes deals at least 500 damage to flying pets, 800+ if it crits. Also being a beast it will take weak damage from Call Darkness.

    Consume Corpse. Dealing strong damage to both Stitched Pup and Dread Hatchling makes their consume corpse less of an issue.

    The Bad: Raggy, no true counter to Raggy, but usually it can at least go toe to toe. Spirit Spikes shields some damage while still hurting back.

    Anubisath Idol. This is definitely not an ideal match up, especially if the Idol has Deflection. Flank is weak and with Sandstorm/Skin up it will hit 2-3 times for 70 damage, while the idol pretty much negate that with racial heal. But now that Demolish hit rate is fixed, Crush will in turn only do weak damage, and with Spirit Spikes up that is even less while still hurting the Idol. You have to be patient and keep at it until Sandstorm runs out. You probably won’t come out on top but leave the Idol low enough to kill off easily.

    MPD with decoy is actually not that much of an issue, since Spirit Spikes will hit through the Decoy while you whittle the decoy down and gain speed. When faster you will go toe to toe with the MPD. Zeppline is worse since it has strong damage against the Porcupette.

    The Ugly: Sunlight. Blossoming Ancient with shield attacks will laugh at you. You need to be very lucky to kill off a Sunflower.

    Nothing the Porcupette can do against AoE, except shield some damage from itself.

    Also not very helpful against a clonedancer, but it is actually a match for the Jademist Dancer itself. You will be faster when they use Rain Dance, and then Spirit Spikes to do damage and help survive the buffed Steam Vents.

    Worst of the pack though are Crabs/Crawdads with Surge. If they don’t have surge and no shield, you might have a shot… lol. But Surge hamper your damage. And if they have a shell or turn based heal you are totally screwed.

    • Vek says:

      That said, I am not convinced that it would be a good fit for the Spirit Crab and DAH. Since it would make you have two beasts and only thing it would bring to the table was some damage vs birds.

    • Vek says:

      I would probably use a S/S Qiraji Guardling. Stun, Sandstorm for some aoe protection and a really hard hit on Crab/Crawdad. With stuns it can square off pretty well against the Idol.

      And I love to stun a Jademist Dancer that has just cast Rain Dance.

      • Discodoggy says:

        Interesting that you would suggest those two. They’re both already on the list of third pets to try :). Although I was thinking Reckless Strike for crabs instead of the stun, but the thought of stunning two rounds of Rain Dance is appealing.

        Here are the other pets I have lined up and ready to go:

        H/H Robo-Chick (with Peck)
        Imperial Silkworm (it’s a stretch, I know)
        Mulgore Hatchling (probably too weak overall)
        Lifelike Toad
        Enchanted Broom

        You can probably figure out what I had in mind when choosing each.

    • Noel says:

      I’ve been using a Vengeful Porcupette for a while now since you recommended it; surprisingly good!

  4. Liwei says:

    If you’re referring to the thread I think you are, I stand by my claim that Lil’ Rag is a far cry from being one of the strongest pets. The only frustrating part is the trap having a tendency to go off at the worst time. But that’s no more frustrating to me personally than swapping to try and dodge a nocturnal strike/blood in the water and getting hit anyway.

    Which is frustrating, don’t get me wrong.

    And I am one of those people who keeps a clonedance team on standby for when I get frustrated with running into teams my more fun teams can’t beat. I guess I am a horrible person <_<

    • Discodoggy says:

      It’s not just you, a lot of people discount Lil’ Rag on the forums. It might be because the subject is always brought up by some guy telling everyone how bad they are for using him and using their mom’s credit card to purchase him. It immediately sets people on the defensive.

      That aside, I just think that traps give too much bang for the buck. It’s a move that damages, priority interrupts and stuns the next round. It also can’t be cleansed without detonating. I think that if it did two out of three of the things mentioned and it could be cleansed then it would be fine. I also understand that some will say that it is balanced by its randomness, but that doesn’t change the fact that it still does all three of those things when it does detonate.

      And if you are a horrible person for using clonedance then I am a horrible person for using an adder so much lately. I was just trying to say that clonedance and Consume Corpse teams are two of the hardest comps to counter. So your horribleness is better than mine :).

      • Luthorien says:

        I don’t think people are horrible for using Clone Dance…as long as they’re trying out different variations of it from time to time. 😀

  5. Kring says:

    > The problem I have with this team is that both the adder and mask are good starting pets against valks.

    What’s the sequence you use on your adder when you start against a Valk?

    • Discodoggy says:

      Blind, poison, then swap to crab. With shields and 1887 hp the crab still has a lot of health after the valk is finished with Haunt, plus a DoT on the backline.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *