May 2015: Young Talbuk
youngtalbukWhen I first started using the Young Talbuk I was very impressed, yet somehow I stopped using it as much. That’s about to change, with your help of course. What sort of Young Talbuk teams will you come up with? I have an S/S, an H/P and an H/S to choose from so please stick to those breeds. I’m looking forward to seeing your ideas!

So how does the contest work? Each participant will submit one team that includes the pet of the month. Teams must be in by the 10th of the month. Once a team is submitted there is no changing the move set, so please be careful with your submission. No duplicate pets are allowed.

Please use this format:
Team Name (optional)
H/P Fragment Of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Spirit Spikes)
P/S Stonegrinder (Woodchipper,Thunderbolt,Clean-Up)
P/P Twilight Fiendling (Creepy Chomp, Crreping Ooze, Siphon Life)

… as opposed to:
Team Name (optional)
H/P Fragment Of Anger (2,1,2)
P/S Stonegrinder (2,1,1)
P/P Twilight Fiendling (1,2,2)

I like everything to be uniform and the latter creates an extra level of work for me. Thanks :)

Initially I will play each submitted team an equal number of times. The number of times that I play each team will depend on the number of submissions. I will state this initial number of battles after all teams are submitted. Expect around four initial battles if there is the same level of participation as last month (14 submissions). After the initial battles the top five teams will move onto the championship round, where I will play each team four more times. All undefeated teams will automatically move into the championship round, even if there are more than five. If there is a tie after the championship rounds then the tied teams will enter a sudden death mode, where each team will play another battle until one team has more wins than the other in sudden death. Quality win points will not factor into sudden death.

Each win will be worth ten points, each draw will be worth five points. A stalemate will be considered a draw. Each pet on a submitted team that is not on either of the top or high-tier list will be worth ten extra points. Each pet on a submitted team that is not on the top-tier list (but on the high-tier list) will be worth five extra points. No extra points are awarded for the pet of the month itself.

These extra points are called “team points”.

Teams get extra points for beating higher quality opponents. If your team beats a team with a top-tier pet on it then you earn an extra point for each top-tier pet, if it beats a team with a high-tier pet on it then it’ll earn a half point for each high-tier pet on the enemy team.

Here is the tier list: Top & High Tier List

Note: Some pets have been added to the list since last month.

If you need more explanation about team points you can see examples here: POTW #2

The winner will receive a Blizzard store pet of their choice. Good luck!

Last Month’s Teams:

All your decoys are belong to us
H/P Fragment of Anger (Seethe, Spirtfire Beam, Soulrush)
P/S Stonegrinder (Screeching Gears, Thunderbolt, Clean-Up)
S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tuff n’ Cuddly, Flurry)

Score: 59 (4-1, 15 team points, 4 quality win points)
allyourdecoyW: Fluxfire Feline, Weebomination, Chrominius (1)
L: Blossoming Ancient, Kun-Lai Runt, Stinker
W: Hydraling, Bonkers, Netherspawn (0.5)
W: Ore Eater, Servant Of Demidos, Sunreaver Micro-Sentry (1)
W: Chrominius, Nexus Whelpling, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling (1.5)

I just couldn’t damage through the heals in the second battle or else this team would have gone undefeated; Stinker cuaght me off guard. I didn’t get a screenshot because the last opponent fled after the second round when I juked the Surge of Power. Other than that it was a fun team to play.

Anger Moon
H/P Fragment of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Soulrush)
H/P Trunks (When Elekks Fly, Moonfire, Avalanche)
S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tough n’ Cuddly, Flurry)

Score: 75.5 (5-0, 20 team points, 5.5 quality win points)
angermoonW: Stunted Direhorn, Creepy Crate, Hydraling (0.5)
W: Emerald Whelpling, Amber Moth, Magical Crawdad (2)
W: Direhorn Runt, Ore Eater, Bone Serpent (1.5)
W: Clockwork Gnome, Terrible Turnip, Soul Of The Forge (0.5)
W: Ore Eater, Bone Serpent, Mechanical Socrpid (1)

When Elekks Fly is a risky move to take, but here the risk paid off. I’m interested to see how well the Young Talbuk will do in the next month.

Angry Pig Bones
H/P Fragment of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Soulrush)
S/S Lifelike Mechanical Boar (Charge, Pig Out, Decoy)
S/S Bone Serpent (Bone Barrage, Call Darkness, Nocturnal Strike)

Score: 76.5 (5-0, 20 team points, 6.5 quality win points)
angrypigbonesW: Bronze Whelpling, Pandaren Water Spirit, Enchanted Broom (1)
W: Pandaren Water Spirit, Darkmoon Zeppelin, Chrominius
W: Azure Whelpling, Emerald Proto-Whelp, Chrominius (0.5)
W: Ore Eater, Teroclaw Hatchling, Alpine Hare (3)
W: Bone Serpent, Gooey Sha-ling, Ikky (1)

I have to admit it was hard getting used to the 1319 health serpent when I’m used to having 1644. It obviously wasn’t detrimental to the team’s win rate.

Bad vibes
H/P Vengeful Porcupette (Powerball, Spirit Spikes, Flank)
H/P Fragment of anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Soulrush)
S/S Hyjal Wisp (Arcane Blast, Evanescence, Wish)

Score: 74 (5-0, 20 team points, 4 quality win points)
badvibesW: Sister Of Temptation, Unborn Val’kyr, Molten Corgi (1)
W: Fiendish Imp, Chaos Pup, Wild Golden Hatchling (1)
W: Darkmoon Zeppelin, Pandaren Water Spirit, Chrominius
W: Bonkers, Murkalot, Swamp Croaker (1)
W: Wild Crimson Hatchling, Unborn Val’kyr, Molten Corgi (1)

I forgot how awesome the Vengeful Porcupette is when used properly. I used Wish a lot less than you would think, most of the time I was more concerned with ramping up Arcane Blast.

Banana Chilled Anger
H/P Fragment of Anger (Spiritfire Bolt, Spirtfire Beam, Soulrush)
P/B Darkmoon Monkey (Smash, Clobber, Banana Barrage)
B/B Frigid Frostling (Ice Lance, Frost Nova, Howling Blast)

Score: 64 (4-1, 20 team points, 4 quality win points)
bananachilledW: Weebomination, Fragment Of Anger, Puddle Terror (1)
W: Lil’ Ragnaros, Unborn Val’kyr, Swamp Croaker (2)
L: Bone Serpent, Ore Eater, Dread Hatchling
W: Lil’ Tarecgosa, Flat-Tooth Calf, Restless Shadeling
W: Scourged Whelpling, Iron Starlette, Ominous Flame (1)

This surely surpasses the amount of Frigid Frostling battles that I’ve done on my own. There’s no shame in losing that battle to the Ore Eater team.

Black Temple Bilecats
H/P Fragment Of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Spirit Spikes)
P/S Biletoad (Tongue Lash, Healing Wave, Frog Kiss)
P/B Feline Familiar (Onyx Bite, Stoneskin, Devour)

Score: 58 (3-1-1, 20 team points, 3 quality win points)
blacktemplebilecatsW: Dark Phoenix Hatchling, Mud Jumper, Netherspawn
D: Amber Moth, Harbinger Of Flame, Lost Of Lordaeron
W: Anubisath Idol, Teroclaw Hatchling, Chrominius (2)
W: Clock Em’, Darkmoon Tonk, Lil’ Bling (1)
L: Bonkers, Bonkers, Summit Kid

I enjoyed using the Feline Familiar since that’s a pet that I probably haven’t used in over a year before this team. Devour helped me out of a few jams.

Death From Below
H/P Fragment of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Spirit Spikes)
S/S Rabbit (Flurry, Dodge, Burrow)
P/B Spawn of G’nathus (Swallow You Whole, Dive, Thunderbolt)

Score: 63 (5-0, 10 team points, 3 quality win points)
deathfrombelowW: Dark Phoenix Hatchling, Mud Jumper, Netherspawn
W: Lil’ Bling, Lil’ Bling, Sunreaver Micro-Sentry (1)
W: Lil’ XT, Anubisath Idol, Chrominius (1)
W: Lil’ Tarecgosa, Unborn Val’kyr, Twilight Fiendling (1)
W: Mongoose, Shrine Fly, Silkbead Snail

Damn, rabbits can be crazy good. I’m glad other people like the Spawn of G’nathus because I always overlook it when building teams, then realize it’s both competitive and fun to use.

H/P Fragment of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Soul rush)
H/P Infected Squirrel (Stampede, Creeping Fungus, Consume)
S/S Slithershock Elver (Grasp, Dodge, Pump)

Score: 54 (3-2, 20 team points, 4 quality win points)
decoyhateW: Lil’ Ragnaros, Molten Corgi, Soul Of The Aspects (1)
W: Gilnean Raven, Perky Pug, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling (2)
L: Unborn Val’kyr, Lil’ Ragnaros, Mechanical Pandaren Drgonling
W: Chi-Chi, Bonkers, Unborn Val’kyr (1)
L: Weebomination, Iron Starlette, Stonegrinder

In that last battle I really needed Deep Bite instead of Grasp, but that’s just the way it goes. That third team has been harassing me regularly, I’ve lost to it a few times. Gotta love beating Bonkers and and a valk!

Elune’s Wrath
H/P Fragment of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Soulrush)
S/S Nether Faerie Dragon (Arcane Blast, Ethereal, Moonfire)
P/S Sentinel’s Companion (Peck, Soulrush, Ethereal)

Score: 77.5 (5-0, 20 team points, 5.5 quality win points)
eluneswrathW: Molten Corgi, Sky-Bo, Lifelike Mechanical Frostboar
W: Dread Raven, Kun-Lai Runt, Darkmoon Tonk (1.5)
W: Unborn Val’kyr, Living Fluid, Clockwork Gnome (1.5)
W: Blighthawk, Jademist Dancer, Junglebeak (3)
W: Clockwork Gnome, Magical Crawdad, Voodoo Figurine (1.5)

As usual, I’m looking back on the fourth victory and trying to remember how it happened. Perhaps there was a stun involved. At any rate that’s a huge win.

Fun with Carps
H/P Zomstrok (Infected Claw, Shell Shield, Carpnado)
H/P Fragment Of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Soulrush)
S/S Sky-Bo (Flamehtrower, Sticky Grenade, Launch)

Score: 77 (5-0, 20 team points, 7 quality win points)
funwithcarpsW: Unborn Val’kyr, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling, Jademist Dancer (3)
W: Pandaren Earth Spirit, Fragment Of Desire, Sunreaver Micro-Sentry
W: Chrominius, Bone Serpent, Ashwing Moth (1)
W: Murkalot, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling, Fragment Of Anger (2)
W: Rabbit, Pandaren Earth Spirit, Fishy (1)

I got way behind in that last battle thanks to a bad choice of starting pet and a Mudslide crit. This team was resilient enough to come back and keep its undefeated record. I really, really enjoy Zomstrok. Note to self: use Zomstrok more.

Janus and the Elephant
H/P Fragment of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Soulrush)
H/B Fragment of Suffering (Spiritfire Bolt, Breath of Sorrow, Drain Power)
H/P Trunks (Smash, Ethereal, Avalanche)

Score: 75.5 (5-0, 20 team points, 5.5 quality win points)
janusandtheelephantW: Celestial Dragon, Abyssius, Gahz’rooki
W: Darkmoon Tonk, Masked Tanuki, Eternal Strider (0.5)
W: Ore Eater, Teroclaw Hatchling, Ghastly Kid (3)
W: Fragment Of Anger, Frostfur Rat, Dread Hatchling (1)
W: Harbinger Of Flame, Stinker, Ikky (1)

Trunks does very well. That third win was an awesome one.

Moonlit Anger
H/P Fragment of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Spirit Spikes)
H/S Harmonious Porcupette (Scratch, Moonfire, Tranquility)
P/P Dragonbone Hatchling (Thrash, Adrenaline Rush, Lift-Off)

Score: 55 (3-1-1, 20 team points)
moonlitangerW: Snow Cub, Adder, Arctic Fox Kit
L: Bronze Whelpling, Ghastly Kid, Ore Eater
W: Garden Moth, Dancing Water Skimmer, Masked Tanuki
W: Sky-Bo, Sentinel’s Companion, Viscidus Globule
D: Iron Starlette, Molten Corgi, Fragment Of Anger

I still really like use Thrash birds like the Dragonbone Hatchling. Tranquility was useful a few times to help the bird keep its speed.

Slap That Puppy
H/P Fragment Of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Soulrush)
H/P Leviathan Hatchling (Tail Slap, Poison Spit, Primal Cry)
H/H Worg Pup (Flurry, Crouch, Dazzling Dance)

Score: 81.5 (5-0, 20 team points, 11.5 quality win points)
slappuppyW: Kun-Lai Runt, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling, Fossilized Hatchling (2.5)
W: Teroclaw Hatchling, Unborn Val’kyr, Sister Of Temptation (2)
W: Snarly, Chuck, Infested Bear Cub (2.5)
W: Mojo, Unborn Val’kyr, Death Adder Hatchling (2)
W: Snarly, Chuck, Infested Bear Cub (2.5)

What a tough set of battles, yet this team always managed to pull out a victory. Dazzling Dance can be such a pain for speedy teams to deal with.

The Arginauts
H/P Fragment of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Soulrush)
H/S Argi (Gnaw, Gift of Naaru, Headbutt)
P/B Spawn of G’Nathus (Swallow You Whole, Dive, Thunderbolt)

Score: 53.5 (3-2, 20 team points, 3.5 quality win points)
thearginautsL: Warbot, Ancient Nest Guardian, Direhorn Runt
L: Bonkers, Clockwork Gnome, Fragment Of Anger
W: Ore Eater, Teroclaw Hatchling, Ghastly Kid (3)
W: Pygmy Direhorn, Phoenix Hatchling, Death Talon Whelpguard (0.5)
W: Iron Starlette, Molten Corgi, Fragment Of Anger

After a slow start this team started to build up some steam. That third battle was clearly the highlight victory a three point team with two of the best pets in the game going down. Awesome.

And the winner is… not yet determined. There are eight teams that went undefeated, which means I still have thirty-two battles to go before a winner can be crowned. I will do this within the next week, so you won’t have to wait too long. Go ahead and submit your Young Talbuk teams in the meantime.

Championship Rounds

I can’t quite believe it myself, but after playing each team four more times there are still seven undefeated teams. Somehow the FoA teams just keep managing to win, even when I think I’m outmatched. Part of the reason is that the level of competition is pretty low, but there were also some good teams used by good players that were beaten. I think after this showing the FoA deserves to move from the high to the top tier. So now I will move the seven teams to a “sudden death” elimination style playoff.

Anger Moon
champangermoonW: Softshell Sapling, Fel Flame, Chrominius
W: Bone Serpent, Worg Pup, Frostwolf Ghostpup
W: Ore Eater, Qiraji Guardling, Bonkers
W: Lil’ Deathwing, Leopard Tree Frog, Brilliant Bloodfeather

Angry Pig Bones
champangrypigW: Anodized Robo Cub, Minfernal, Ash Spiderling
W: Unborn Val’kyr, Clockwork Rocket Bot, Emperor Crab
W: Servant Of Demidos, Twilight Fiendling, Sunreaver Micro-Sentry
W: Fossilized Hatchling, Anubisath Idol, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling

Bad Vibes
champbadvibesW: Lil’ Bling, Iron Starlette, Unborn Val’kyr
W: Brilliant Bloodfeather, Sea Pony, Puddle Terror
W: Magical Crawdad, Teroclaw Hatchling, Blossoming Ancient
W: Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling, Pandaren Water Spirit, Chrominius

Death From Below
champdeathfromL: Alpine Hare, Teroclaw Hatchling, Unborn Val’kyr
W: Albino Chimaerling, Sky-Bo, Harbinger Of Flame
W: Sunreaver Micro-Sentry, Amber Moth, Molten Corgi
W: Fossilized Hatchling, Anubisath Idol, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling

Elune’s Wrath
champelunesW: Infinite Whelpling, Jademist Dancer, Emerald Shale Hatchling
W: Onyxian Whelpling, Disgusting Oozeling, Bone Serpent
W: Sunreaver Micro-Sentry, Amber Moth, Molten Corgi
W: Unborn Val’kyr, Teroclaw Hatchling, Xu-Fu

Fun With Carps
champfunwithW: Unborn Val’kyr, Molten Corgi, Sister Of temptation
W: Ore Eater, Fel Flame, Nordrassil Wisp
W: Royal Moth, Teroclaw Hatchling, Ashwing Moth
W: Fiendish Imp, Corefire Imp, Death Adder Hatchling

Janus and the Elephant
champjanusW: Scourged Whelpling, Infinite Whelpling, Prairie Dog
W: Weebomination, Tolai Hare Pup, Direhorn Runt
W: Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling, Alpine Fox, Amber Moth
W: Lil’ Bling, Unborn Val’kyr, Wild Jade Hatchling

Slap That Puppy
champslappuppyW: Weebomination, Ghastly Kid, Zangar, Crawler
W: Jademist Dancer, Blighthawk, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling
W: Lil’ Bling, Servant Of Demidos, Elementium Geode
W: Corefire Hound, Spirit Crab, Netherspawn

Sudden Death

Round 1
I had a horrible first round of sudden death, losing three out of seven battles. In the first loss I could have used the FoA better against the mechs. In the second loss I was stunned twice by Stonegrinder. Slap That Puppy lost a close one; if Flurry would have hit three on the last turn it would have won, but only two connected.

Anger Moon
L: Anodized Robo Cub, Darkmoon Tonk, Eternal Strider
Final Record: 9-1

Angry Pig Bones
L: Weebomination, Lil’ Tarecgosa, Stonegrinder
Final Record: 9-1

Slap That Puppy
L: Lil’ Bling, Sunreaver Micro-Sentry, Nether Fairie Dragon
Final Record: 9-1

Bad Vibes
W: Eternal Strider, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling, Scourged Whelpling

Elune’s Wrath
W: Teroclaw Hatchling, Teroclaw Hatchling, Nether Fairie Dragonling

Fun With Carps
W: Zandalari Anklerender, Chi-Chi, Sunreaver Micro-Sentry

Janus and the Elephant
W: Teroclaw Hatchling, Teroclaw Hatchling, Nether Fairie Dragonling

Rounds 2-4
It wasn’t until the fourth round of sudden death that I lost again. Once again a mech gave me trouble, once again I should have used the strong elemental damage of the FoA better.

Elune’s Wrath
W: Lost Of Lordaeron, Albino Chimaerling, Abyssius
W: Hatespark, Crimson Whelpling, Zandalari Footslasher
L: Unborn Val’kyr, Molten Corgi, Darkmoon Tonk
Final Record: 11-1

Bad Vibes
W: Draenei Micro Defender, Kun-Lai Runt, Bone Serpent
W: Kun-Lai Runt, Weebomination, Frostwolf Pup
W: Teroclaw Hatchling, Ghastly Kid, Fiendish Imp

Fun With Carps
W: Frostwolf Ppup, Sentinel’s Companion, Kun-Lai Runt
W: Crimson Whelpling, Emerald Turtle, Skywisp Moth
W: Argi, Aqua Strider, Alpine Foxling Kit

Janus and the Elephant
W: Bonkers, Ashwing Moth, Alpine Hare
W: Stonegrinder, Kun-Lai Runt, Swamp Croaker
W: Death Talon Whelpguard, Dark Phoenix Hatcling, Direhorn Runt

Rounds 5-12
The three remaining teams then went on an incredible win streak, with Bad Vibes being the first to give way. Three undead racials were just too much to handle, even with the incredible undead killing power of the Vengeful Porcupette.

Bad Vibes
W: Nordrassil Wisp, Lil’ Bling, Infinite Whelpling
W: Clockwork Gnome, Curious Wolvar Pup, Fossilized Hatchling
W: Bucktooth Flapper, Fel Flame, Dark Phoenix Hatchling
W: Weebomination, Sporeling Sprout, Sentinel’s Companion
W: Bonkers, Alpine Hare, Amber Moth
W: Unborn Val’kyr, Kun-Lai Runt, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling
W: Iron Stalette, Meadowstomper, Mini Mindslayer
L: Bone Serpent, Macabre Marionette, Ghastly Kid
Final Record: 20-1

Fun With Carps
W: Lil’ Bling, Snarly, Chrominius
W: Azure Whelpling, Infinite Whelpling, Hatespark the Tiny
W: Spotted Bell Frog, Leopard Tree Frog, Infinite Whelpling
W: Nightshade Sproutling, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling, Blighthawk
W: Nightshade Sproutling, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling, Blighthawk
W: Fiendish Imp, Ghastly Kid, Death Adder Hatchling
W: Trunks, Qiraji Guardling, Bone Serpent
W: Puddle Terror, Infected Squirrel, Unborn Val’kyr

Janus and the Elephant
W: Darkmoon Eye, Iron Starlette, Syd the Squid
W: Lil’ Bling, Lil’ Smoky, Mr. Bigglesworth
W: Clockwork Gnome, Bonkers, Alterac Brew-Pup*
W: Unborn Val’kyr, Infinite Whelpling, Darkmoon Zeppelin
W: Meadowstomper Calf, Royal Moth, Molten Corgi
W: Onyxian Whelpling, Lunar Lantern, Nether Ray Fry
W: Pandaren Water Spirit, Lil’ Bad Wolf, Minfernal
W: Ikky, Teroclaw Hatchling, Nether Fairie Dragon

Round 13
I was digging in for another long streak of battles (and wins) when a DAH team got the best of me. I thought I played it well enough, not making any glaring errors, but obviously my opponent did a better job than me. My hat goes off to them for beating such a high powered team.

Fun With Carps
L: Death Adder Hatchling, Lifelike Mechanical Frostboar, Death Talon Whelpguard
Final Record: 21-1

Janus and the Elephant
W: Likelike Mechanical Frostboar, Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling, Lil’ Ragnaros
Final Record: 22-0

That leaves Bullfeather’s incredible team as this month’s winner. Congratulations! Email at discodoggywow@gmail with your choice of pet. Also let me know if you are on an EU or a US server. I’ll see how far I can take your team undefeated, even at the expense of putting the Bog Bastards (a team that went 27-0) to shame :)

And finally, I thought it would be nice to add all of the information from the previous competitions:

POTW #1 Imperial Eagle Chick, 14-16, Winner: Vek
POTW #2 Hopling, 27-8, Winner: Liwei
POTM #1 Son Of Sethe, 22-17-3, Winners: Wiff & Wamp
POTM #2 Frostwolf Ghostpup, 47-21-2, Winner: Zero
POTM #3 Teroclaw Hatchling, 71-18-1, Winner: Wamp
POTM #4 Fragment Of Anger, 130-15-2, Winner: Bullfeathers

I hope I added all that up correctly.

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114 Responses to POTM #5

  1. Discodoggy says:

    Oh, I forgot to add that this month I will incorporate your teams into the daily as I did a few months ago. I was daunted by the task of trying to fit fourteen teams in a daily or two so I didn’t even try. What I’ll do differently is not try to get all of your teams in at once. I’ll spread them around throughout the month :)

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      This is an assault on the sovereignty of our experiencing of new teams.

      Eight teams that went undefeated though: that would feel like people dug up some decent combinations, and I imagine nearly noone used pets from the top tier list.

      These should all be fun to add to my pvp teams list.

      The Young Talbuk being this month’s PotM is kind of a dead giveaway though, you’ve been lyrical about this stupid animal for quite a while. I really don’t like it myself. Beasts are terrible in PvP, their racial can be good but tends to be useless since they will generally be dead before utilizing it, or utilizing it on undead/mechanical rounds etc.

      It’s going to be a challenge to make that shit thing work. I mean sure: it’s a 50% fast damage reductor with flurry. But there’s better options that do flurry-type effects and evade more damage and aren’t on the top tier list. To me it’s just a shitty canine.

      I also feel it’s not an interesting pet since there really is no reason to not go Flurry and Tough and Cuddly, maybe you can make an argument for Horn Gore, but I doubt it. There’s no real reason to Horn Gore when you can flurry when you’re faster (It always averages out to more damage). And shattered defenses are awesome.

      It should have been slightly faster, then it might have made a difference. And maybe have had a more interesting first slot move. Like Vengeance instead of Horn Gore. That could have been interesting.

      Overall I think this month is going to see you have a *lot* more losses, cuz this ‘ere Talbuk has no redeeming qualities. But maybe I’m sour that you didn’t go with something unconventional like a Spore (I’m currently pioneering a S/S spore)

      PS. You can easily cage one of your Talbuk to run another version. The P/P version is arguably one of the stronger ones depending on what you intend to use it for. I’m fine either way since I’ll obviously use a S/S version, they’re my favorite.

      • UndeadAI says:

        its not as bad as you think and horn gore gives the talbuck some coverage . Its a great sweeper and one of the undefeated teams used the talbuk (my anger team with the talbuk was 4-1, blossoming ancient teams has hurt me twice now.)

        • Sibel from Kazzak says:

          It just doesn’t seem to have sweeper attributes. It’s not faster than most pets so you can lose to coin tosses. It’s not a type that’s countered by a type that’s hardly ever played. It doesn’t do sneaky avoids or type changes.

          It’s a vanilla 325 speed beast with 50% damage reduction and Flurry. Making it (again) a bad canine to me, which generally do something awesome like a team speed buff or can Howl.

          Although I’ll admit the Talbuk can apply Shattered Defenses while being damage-reduced.

          But then again it’s incredibly weak against shields (Maybe a reason to pick the Gore again).

          I don’t know, it may feel slightly gimmicky when you use it as third pet to something, but we have to build our teams on it now, and we also lost the Bone Serpent to deal with things that will typically hurt the Talbuk.

      • Vek says:

        I can tell you a few things I really like about the Young Talbuk.

        First thing is of course Flurry. I have been wanting/needing/craving some other pets with this awesome ability that are not the usual critters. Most other pets that have similar abilities, which could be really great, are just hampered by their abilities not working like Flurry.(i.e. keep going through decoy/bubble/misses/cocoon)

        Well we of course have the wolves/foxes to go to, and I do love them, but I always feel something is missing with them. Enter Young Talbuk.

        With Horn Gore you have a pretty much perfect cover for the downfalls of Flurry. Flurry really suffers against any opponent with a shield/shell, in Sandstorm or against anything faster, especially go-first moves like Surge.

        Horn Gore gives you a big hit to go through shell shields and is not diminished by your opponent going first. I often run into the Anubisath Idol and critters with Flurry don’t really stand much of a chance. Wolves are going to have to rely on lucky Howl. The Talbuk though takes weak damage from Crush, even weaker in Sandstorm and Tough n Cuddly up, while not doing weak damage with Horn Gore(which flurry does against humanoids). Win-Win.

        I would generally prefer the S/S breed but the first Talbuk I got a hold of was the P/B breed. Slightly more Health than S/S, it got a little more oomph with 289 power and with 273 speed it will still outspeed most undead(for full flurry glory) and a lot of other 260 and below speed pets. Flurry will still remove a Decoy in one turn even if slower.

        Thats just why I love the Young Talbuk.

        • Vek says:

          And Horn Gore being a beast attack will really hurt pets like rabbits for the two turns you can actually hit them.

          • Vek says:

            Vek spam…

            Horn Gore use the old 80% hit rate damage range. So it can hit quite hard when hitting high, especially so when critting with beast racial up.

          • Sibel from Kazzak says:

            If you’re running it to fight fast critters, generally the S/S type would be a waste.

          • Vek says:

            Of course I would not chose the Talbuk to deal with faster rabbits if I could help it, but sometimes you just can’t chose your match-ups so it helps that some pets are good at handling different threats.

        • Sibel from Kazzak says:

          Horn Gore does do that, but is it worth giving up Shattered Defenses? The Talbuk isn’t particularly strong so you probably want to cover for shields in another pet anyway. (Especially since like me, you like the S/S breed)

          Do you see a lot of Anubisath Idols in your meta? They hardly ever pop up here, and then sometimes they even have Demolish instead of Crush (which can be a scary SCARY surprise)

          And I like the pet’s name, and maybe the model, just not what it can do.

    • gsv says:

      Not to be nitpicky but the win over the valk and the DAH should have been 2 quality points not 1 :)

  2. Sibel from Kazzak says:

    I never expected Janus and the Elephant to work by the way. That’s going to be an interesting daily.

    • Bullfeathers says:

      Janus teams don’t look like they should work, except they quite often do. I seriously considered submitting a pure Janus with all three of the Fragments, because it has a stunning win percentage for me (and it looks cool to have three heads floating on your side). Suffering is the unsung hero. Its debuffs are big help in the sweeper role and against heavy heals. I subbed in Trunks for Desire to cover the weak spots, and because Desire was ending up an expendable pawn most of the time. Very high critter damage wrecks Janus too fast. Trunks adds major beast damage to compensate. Triple mech can usually wear out the two Elemental damage pets. Avalanche is usually enough to turn that tide. Trunks is also the absolute best big hit mitigator. Evanescence for the obvious ones. Magic racial means you can eat that Supercharged p/p Wind Up when you need to. Janus alone has major issues with Howl Bomb. It’s not usually a problem, but there’s several running around in my meta. Trunks can all but solo that.

      These days I run Vengeful Porcupette in place of Suffering because there is an ungodly amount of undead in my meta and I think overall it’s better than the Suffering, but not greatly so, and not if you have heavy healing presence in your meta.

  3. UndeadAI says:

    S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tuff n’ Cuddly, Flurry)
    P/S Vu’la (Jadefire Lightning, Celestial Blessing, Life Exchange)
    H/P Zomstrok (Infected Claw, Shell Shield, Carpnado)

    A surprising tanky team with some really good coverage and aoe with the talbuk as a sweeper

    • UndeadAI says:

      forgot the team name : Electrified Carps of Doom

      • Sibel from Kazzak says:

        You’re fucked now, if the name isn’t immediately visible, Disco with name your team himself 😉

        Like: The Dancing Jaleous Fisher

        • Discodoggy says:

          I think this is a bit on the rude side.

          I appreciate everyone’s comments and especially differences in opinions to mine, but I would ask that everyone please be polite when expressing their opinions.

          • Sibel from Kazzak says:

            It was in good jest, what message did you think I was sending? Cultural differences perhaps, I have renamed several of my teams to names you use in your honor.

            If anything it’s an admission of guilt for not being able to make interesting team names myself! But I tried to think of something anyway, and probably came up short :( (I have been posting here quite a while now I might add)

          • Discodoggy says:

            Sometimes it’s hard to tell intent and tone from the internet, thanks for the reply.

          • Sibel from Kazzak says:

            (And a wink to the intense interest in these competitions, leaving you with little time)

          • Sibel from Kazzak says:

            Team name: Discodoggy please name me, I’m sorry :(

            H/P Zomstrok (Infected Claw, Shell Shield, Carpnado)
            S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tough ‘n Cuddly, Flurry)
            S/S Molten Corgi (Flamethrower, Cauterize, Puppies of the Flame)

            I’ve tested it quite a bit, and if you can predict the opponents moves, it can hold up against sickly teams like Unborn Valkyr/Mechanical Pandaren Dragonling/Weebomination. But it’s going to be close.

  4. Tekulve says:

    Shock and Awesomely fast

    Slithershock elver s/s – deep bite / dodge / dive
    Young talbuk s/s horn hire / tough n cuddly / flurry
    Nightshade sprouting s/s – lash / call darkness / blinding poison

    This team will control weather..cause misses..mitigate damage and offer big hits with deep bite ramped up…expect some opponents to flee. : )

    Disco…you are obviously too good …8 undefeated teams is amazing! Well done !

  5. Liwei says:

    8 undefeated teams? Yikes!

    I noticed that very few evil mechanical dragonlings showed up in these matches, despite your loathing of them and apparent heavy use of them. Curious. Maybe they knew it was ‘kill the decoy’ month?

    I’ll see what I can come up with for the talbuk and post back later.

  6. Tekulve says:

    Spell checker must have been imaginative on me there…edits to

    Shock and Awesomely fast
    S/S breeds x 3 as posted – sorry it’s not the exact format order you wanted
    Horn gore is the talbuk’s attack name

    If your PotM winner for April has all the store pets, I offer to donate a pet as an alternate prize. They can choose between a Droplet of Y.- p/s hreed I think / Son of Animus / Guardian Cub / p/s Gilnean Raven or Night saber Cub

  7. Vapid says:

    Someone else is suggesting Zomstok this month o.O !! But I will stick with him for a third month in a row since he is too much fun.

    Whatever name Dicso decides on
    S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tuff n’ Cuddly, Flurry)
    S/S Nightshade Sprouting (Lash, Call Darkness, Blinding Poison)
    H/P Zomstrok (Infected Claw, Shell Shield, Carpnado)

    Kinda combining pets from teams I like, but generally this team starts with the NightSprout, then Zom, then Talbuk as thr sweeper. But obviously it can change if you are facing a bunch of undeads.

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      Zomstrok is decently powerful. It’s a lot like the Fossilized Hatchling.

      In fact, I’d argue it’s almost an exact copy of the Fossilized Hatchling, but with the benefit of not being on the top tier list. I was actually planning on running it myself to replace the lost Bone Serpent, although I’m not sure how Carpnado interacts with Decoy.

    • UndeadAI says:

      this was originally the team I was going to submit but I was having issues with certain comps containing flyers and the yu’la helped correct the problem while adding some extra defense. zomstrock with shell shield and celestial blessing is insanely beefy

  8. gsv says:

    Horny Animals
    S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tuff n’ Cuddly, Flurry)
    P/P Death Talon Whelpguard (Shadowflame, Whirlwind, Darkflame)
    H/P Trunks (Smash, Ethereal, Avalanche)


  9. Celya says:

    Abyssal Buck

    S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tough n’ Cuddly, Flurry)
    P/P Abyssius (Crush, Flamethrower, Volcano)
    H/B Tiny Blue Carp (Surge, Wild Magic, Pump)

    I actually have my own team with a Talbuk+Zomstrok combo, but since there’s been a couple of entries already using those pets, I’m trying a different approach lol.

  10. Corndog says:

    Lord of the Flies

    S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tough n’ Cuddly, Flurry)
    P/S Voodoo Figurine (Shadow Slash, Wild Magic, Rot)
    H/B Swamp Croaker (Water Jet, Swarm of Flies, Bubble)

    Hope you have fun with this team.

  11. Wiff says:

    Stack ’em High

    P/S Ominous Flame (Spiritfire Bolt, Scorched Earth, Forboding Curse)
    H/P Macabre Marionette (Macabre Maraca, Death and Decay, Bone Barrage)
    S/S Young Talbuk (Stampede, Tough n’ Cuddly, Flurry)

    You might find Flurry and damage reduction most appropriate for our current meta. Haunt and AoE teams are far less vulnerable to rot strategies so that should give you some extra kick and staying power against Valks, Fragments, Fossilized Hatchlings, etc.

    • Vek says:

      “Great” minds think alike. I was planning on submitting Wild Magic boosted talkbuk with the Marionette, but with Corefire Imp.

      Now Celya is bringing Wild Magic with Carp, Corndog with Voodoo Figurine and Wiff is using Forboding Curse and the Marionette. I need to come up with something else I think. :)

      • Wiff says:

        I considered Corefire as my token debuffer, but the Ominous offers more coverage against fliers and Darkness setups on top of being a weather counter (a double-whammy against Smelly Dog Face). Plus the speed debuff is hella juicy.

        Also, Spiritfire Bolt crits are fifteen brands of crazy.

        • Sibel from Kazzak says:

          Ominous always feels so light in the health department somehow though, but Foreboding Curse is really really REALLY awesome. I run it in a Son of Sethe team.

          I guess it generally trades well.

          Looking forward to seeing it perform too, although the Marionette is too common for me to be as excited as with the previous Trunks team and the Firebird :)

  12. Liwei says:

    Shock and D’aww

    S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tough ‘n Cuddly, Flurry)
    Molten Corgi (Flamethrower, Cauterize, Inferno Herding)
    P/B Firewing (Alpha Strike, Sunlight, Healing Flame)

    If you don’t happen to have a P/B Firewing, order of preference goes H/B > S/B > B/B.

    Pet battling with the cutest of the cute, the Molten Corgi? Yes. It must be done. Having some sustain in Sunlight weather is helpful to Firewing and the Corgi, but neither is totally reliant on it. An added bonus is that the Talbuk’s beast racial will kick in faster in Sunlight, making it an even better sweeper.

  13. Tekulve says:

    Grats on picking Firewing for your comp. This is an unsung pet IMO. The fact that you can run a scorched earth or sunlight team with it makes it interesting and relevant in today’s pvp…especially as a flying pet.

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      I love Scorched Earth on Firewing, but the damage always bites me in the ass, costing the flyer bonus. But I am a big fan of that bird, too, and I will love seeing it work.

      I never really run it with Sunlight and Healing Flame though, so going to watch this team like I watched the Janus (Trunks) team from the last competition.

      • Liwei says:

        Scorched Earth is nice when lined up with Deep Burn, but neither of the other pets benefit from the weather, and the Molten Corgi already provides a source of elemental damage too. And magic type pets aren’t prominent enough to justify taking it just to have a source of dragonkin damage. Having Alpha Strike offers a bit more coverage, and leaves Sunlight as a supportive weather type that indirectly buffs the Talbuk and aids both Firewing and the Corgi in sustaining through fights. Healing Flame vs Murder isn’t even a contest in my opinion – I see no good reason to want to have Murder on the pet.

        Just my thought process behind it all. Only real downside I see is that the team’s probably pretty vulnerable to heavy AoE. But at least the Corgi can disrupt an AoE combo with Inferno Herding, so there’s that. (And that’s also why I didn’t select Puppies of the Flame)

  14. Vek says:

    Iced Talbuk
    S/S Young Talbuk(Horn Gore,Tough n’ Cuddly,Flurry)
    H/S Tundra Penguin(Surge,Slippery Ice,Ice Lance)
    S/S Nether Faerie Dragon(Arcane Blast,Evanescence,Cyclone)

    Bit concerned about the NFD, feels like the weakest link.

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      <3 Tundra Penguin with Slippery Ice. I'm always unlucky though, but it decimates Mechanicals either way.

      Are you planning to start with the Faerie Dragon often? I really don't like Cyclone personally without some kind of hit buff, and Moonfire does hurt flyers a crazy bunch.

      • Vek says:

        This team has no good solution to the Call Darkness birds, best one perhaps is the Talbuk and use Tough n cuddly on the turn Call Darkness is used. Since at least the beast will take weak damage from Call Darkness and then be protected a bit.

        Was tempted to go with Moonfire(of course), but sometimes the light chipping away with cyclone is worth it, and it does wonders against Decoys and back line aquatics.

        Arcane Blast will ramp up and when dragon racial kicks in it wont be “that” far behind Moonfire.

        • Sibel from Kazzak says:

          Moonfire’s just a handy way to drop birds below their racial, it’s damage on demand *now* (and changes the weather).

          I usually run the dragon versus flyers though, so consequently I also don’t tend to run evanescence since it only works when you’re faster. Life Exchange is extremely mean though.

          Mostly wondering now if you ran some trials yourself with Life Exchange and Cyclone (which I think is an okay combo, apply cyclone, then life exchange, and don’t really lose too much for applying the cyclone)

          • Liwei says:

            Running moonfire could potentially be a mistake if you’re not running a team that benefits from the weather, maybe that’s what pushed him into taking cyclone over it.

          • Discodoggy says:

            I rarely log in to do anything but battle due to garrison burn out. I need to at least start doing the pet battle garrison dailies so I can get the new pets when they come out. I was actually excited about mythic dungeons, but I’m not sure if I’ll have time to get into that or not.

  15. Bullfeathers says:

    Green Acres

    P/S Crazy Carrot (Ironbark, Acid Rain, Blistering Cold)
    P/B Mr. Wiggles (Diseased Bite, Crouch, Headbutt)
    S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tough ‘n Cuddly, Flurry)

    I don’t expect this to win. I expect you’ll have some fun, though.

    • Bullfeathers says:

      Actually, just ignore this whole entry. It’s worse than I thought. I’ll just not participate this month. You’ve got enough entries to play, and I’ve no interest in making you spend more of it on this joke idea.

      • Sibel from Kazzak says:

        I don’t think it works that way, you get to post a single team, and you get to change nothing.

        It doesn’t look that awful to be honest, and it uses interesting pets.

        • Bullfeathers says:

          Disco decides how it works. I’m simply telling him he doesn’t have to accept this entry as even existing unless he wants to.

          • Sibel from Kazzak says:

            Well, if he doesn’t, I will, and I’ll tell you all about it. I think your team looks wonderful!

            Tomorrow I’ll give it a whirl :) I think, I may not have Mr. Wiggles leveled.

  16. drip says:

    Sportsman’s Paradise

    S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tough ‘n Cuddly, Flurry)
    H/P Ancient Nest Guardian (Metal Fist, Entangling Roots, Feathered Frenzy)
    H/P Zomstrok (Infected Claw, Shell Shield, Carpnado)

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      This was my second choice team :) Too bad you can only have the one! :) I love the Nest Guardian with his type-change and double-whammy pain applier.

  17. Wamp says:

    Here comes my team:

    Friki Talbuks
    S/B Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tough ‘n Cuddly, Flurry)
    H/P Grinder (Stone Shot, Rupture, Rock Barrage)
    P/B Royal Peacock (Quills, Dazzling Dance, Feign Death)

    My Talbuk is S/B, but any version is fine, better if has more power because speed is granted by Dazzling Dance. I want to try some under used pets, like Grinder.

  18. Discodoggy says:

    Updated. Still seven teams alive in the pet of the everlasting month competition.

    • Liwei says:

      Purely out of curiosity, do you think these teams are all doing so well because of the FoA? Or because the teams have lots of synergy?

      Things to consider before tiering it right?

    • Bullfeathers says:

      My gods. And there is a pile of 3 quality point teams on all those lists too. Yikes.

    • gsv says:

      That is amazing.

      I so wish that you had videos of your games, particularly the “vs top pets” ones. Oh well…

      And it is a rough sort of irony that this happens when you need a break…

      Murphy’s Law in action.

      • Discodoggy says:

        Well, things did finally start to even out in the first round of sudden death. I only went 4-3, which means that there are only four teams remaining.

        As far as the video thing goes, I have considered doing a Twitch stream, but I’m not sure how many people would be interested in that.

  19. Tekulve says:

    PotM comments

    2 points-
    Firstly, I understand that you’ve done championship rounds for unbeaten teams. Personally, I thought it was fine to award the prize to the team with the most points -no champs round. Even if many teams were unbeaten…luck of the draw(meaning #of tough foes)

    Secondly, perhaps you could add an element to the scoring…where you get bonus points for less rounds req.to win (set a standard #for opp.fleeing games)…in the long run,this may reduce the mind numbing healing marathons that no sane person loves

  20. Sibel from Kazzak says:

    “I can’t quite believe it myself, but after playing each team four more times there are still seven undefeated teams.”

    I can’t help but chuckle, really 😛

  21. Discodoggy says:

    So… I’ve been playing all morning long. There are still three undefeated teams, each sitting at a total record of 20-0. Seriously. I kind of want to take a break, but at the same time I’m afraid to lose my mojo. I don’t know if I’ve ever had a crazy run like these past few days. Oh yeah, Bog Bastards, but that was just one team. If one one of these teams gets that far I’m going to tank battle 27 so my personal record isn’t tied or beaten! Of course I wouldn’t do that :)

    Edit: Of course, right after I type this I lose to triple undead team… so sad.

    Edit: The other two teams won, so they are still alive. Now I really need a break.

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      Then do so, duh 😛

      It’s your own fault in another way anyway, awarding a coveted store-pet. I still don’t have Argi, so I’m motivated to produce quality teams 😛

      And you have the top-tier-list, so everyone is also motivated to not use pets from that list (albeit, mostly for fun)..

      I’d say that is resulting in strong teams with new pet combinations that refuse to lose a lot 😛

      How many games have you played for this POTM so far? Well over 200 now?

  22. Discodoggy says:

    Finished! Congrats Bullfeathers!

    • Zero says:

      you’re thinking of taking a break in June ?. I think you need it :-)

    • Bullfeathers says:

      Huzzah! Holy crap. I knew it was a good team, but I didn’t think it was a 22-0 team.

      And yes. You deserve a break, sheesh.

      • Vapid says:

        Many congrats Bullfeathers! I’m need Disco to teach me how to play the team I submitted, since my carp best win streak was 6 lol

      • Sibel from Kazzak says:

        For completion purposes:

        PS. I had hoped I would win this time, maybe :P, but this is what I get for cheering for someone else’s team. Like I said right after your team was posted, I thought it was very imaginative, and is most definitely worthy of a crown :) I thought the team make-up was unique and amazing. Kudos!

        Bullfeathers says:
        March 31, 2015 at 5:26 pm

        Janus and the Elephant

        H/P Fragment of Anger (Seethe, Spiritfire Beam, Soulrush)
        H/B Fragment of Sorrow (Spiritfire Bolt, Breath of Sorrow, Drain Power)
        H/P Trunks (Smash, Ethereal, Avalanche)

  23. Tekulve says:

    MrWiggles and friends rule the day! Huzzah !

    Pretty sure it was Vek that directed me to that pet long ago. Near an age when Anub, the Broom and the FFFeline were big deals…it is so solid

  24. Tekulve says:

    Whoops …I congratulated Bullfeathers for the wrong PotM submission lol…Huzzah anyway. : )

  25. Tekulve says:

    Monstrous Grate on completing that PotM marathon Disco

  26. Tekulve says:

    Monstrous Grats !! Foolish auto-spell check …

  27. Zero says:

    Congratz to the winner :-)

    Here is my team: blighted talbuk

    S/S Young Talbuk (Horn Gore, Tough ‘n Cuddly, Flurry)
    P/B Blighted Squirrel (Scratch, Crouch, Stampede)
    H/P Zomstrok (Infected Claw, Rot, Carpnado)

    Feel free to do what you want with this team, but this is the way i play it to get the most wins .Rot synergise well with scratch and flurry, the idea is start with zom, carpnado->rot, swap to squirrel, scratch->crouch-> stampede til death, then carpnado for double damage and Rot in the undeath round, and the hero comes to the end of the fight to claim the victory, the blighted talbuk.

  28. Harpua says:

    Just wanted to say grats to Bullfeathers on winning.

    Also, big ups to DD for sticking with it. Can’t imagine how much time it took.

    Bowing out of this month’s comp since the Talbuk still hasn’t dropped for me. GL to everyone.

  29. Vek says:

    Insane! Congratulations Bullfeathers. Awesome marathong Disco!

  30. Liwei says:

    And Discodoggy breathes a huge sigh of relief, right? :p

    Grats Bullfeathers on going the distance \o/

  31. gsv says:

    Gratz bullfeathers well deserved. Not surprised though that team is as good as any of the current favourites.

  32. Sibel from Kazzak says:

    New national sport: predicting when Discodoggy plays POTM teams, then queue to destroy the opponent’s teams 😉 If you can predict playing times even better you might even be able to predict when he’s not playing your team, for extra opponent-crushing-power 😛 (Obviously, every team you end up fighting, you have to crush to the best of your ability, anything else would be unethical 😉 )

    To help Disco not have to do hundreds of games 😉

  33. gsv says:

    I think that the thing I like most about the POTM comp is that it proves that pet PvP is not about strong Pets as much as it is about strong “teams”… Sure the FoA is a top pet but it can’t win if it is surrounded by top pets, due to the team points demerit…*** thus encouraging everyone to make strong “teams” that adhere to the finer points of PvP battling listed in your guides… very nice…

    *** Actually this isn’t true anymore because the last changes have glitched the competition. Example I enter a Team with all top pets… I go through undefeated and automatically enter the playoffs where team points and quality points no longer decide anything… oops

    • gsv says:

      and for completeness and before Sibel says “I told you so”… yes he did point towards this in a post when the rules were changed… I wasn’t sure though until I saw this month in action… essentially if the winner was decided after the challenge rounds by points then it would still work (but you could perhaps ask why bother with the extra rounds anyway?) but once it goes to knockout then might as well not have team or quality points at all… just sayin :)

      • gsv says:

        but in an amusing twist of irony.. (and in support of my original post) the only teams to get through to the playoffs were 20 point teams 😀

        • Sibel from Kazzak says:

          I think everyone considers it their personal honor to not use pets from the top-tier-list. I certainly do. :)

      • Sibel from Kazzak says:

        This is the scenario I warned for yes, but I also felt it was less important due to the quality points at first, but I didn’t realize the teams that went undefeated – no matter the margin of points – would continue to the next round no matter what :)

        That said, I don’t think any teams were entered that tried to abuse that. I think I saw one rabbit, but everything else was not-top-tier-list. As far as I could tell everyone tried to make an in equal amounts a good, fun, and non-top-tier team.

        Some sort of rule might be useful though if it ever becomes a problem, like if you have all undefeated teams, only the top 75% in points go to the next round. To further incentivize playing non-top-tier pets. This could be unfair due to the quality points from defeating top-tier-pets though.

        But like I said, while I noticed a possible issue, it’s proven entirely theoretical thus far.

        • gsv says:

          Disco specifically said that any undefeated teams would go through. but also continued to use team and quality points… I was unsure whether there was some way they would be used that mattered.

          however there is nothing “theoretical” about the situation at all. If all teams that are undefeated enter the championship rounds and those championship rounds are played until only one team remains undefeated then team and quality points have zero effect on the outcome.

          I am not saying whether that is good bad or indifferent… merely pointing out something that has been missed as I am certain that is not what Disco intended.

          I am not a fan of quality points as they are RNG outside our control… I said as much in another post. and the championship rounds were introduced as a better way of deciding things, but they end up being a different sort of issue because…

          1) They make team and quality points void.
          2) They add extra games possibly MANY extra games as we have just seen.
          3) They are simply an RNG of a different nature because NO team is unbeatable, that is PvP. And you are simply reliant here on not running into your counter. (which will happen regardless of what system used of course)

          Personally I find the fun to be composing teams without top tier pets, it is a challenge. That being said I already have ALL the store pets anyway, I can’t help but wonder what my attitude would be if the prize was a Mini Tyrael or a Murky.

          Just sayin

          • gsv says:

            hmmm sorry about all that bold. obviously the closing tag got ignored… spell checker? sigh
            only the word AM was supposed to be bold.

          • Sibel from Kazzak says:

            I like the quality points actually, since defeating a triple top-tier team is much, much harder – in theory. If it’s piloted by an idiot, it can be much, much easier.

            So on that accord, it may not be that useful a statistic, it’s better to simply play enough games so that on average all teams run into a certain ratio of quality teams.

            Due to the winning streak, in the end, you are right for this POTM. If you had entered a completely top-tier team, it would have given you an excellent chance to win, due to the sudden death round. Points were irrelevant this POTM.

            And I don’t think prizes should be that valuable, a store pet can be paid for easily by anyone with a half-decent job without worry. And makes most people really happy.

            It’s a fun reward, and not crazy, for a fun competition – not a crazy one. I think that’s why we are all enjoying the POTM so much: *fun* teams with *fun* people here

            I enjoy seeing these teams. I enjoy telling the owners of these teams I loved their weird-ass combination.

            I wouldn’t feel at home in a cut-throat competition, and I’d leave. This blog is about winning, naturally, but winning with style and flair and to do it fair. To me, this is what draws me here.

            As far as ideas to better use quality points, perhaps instead of wins and losses we should refurbish the system to use points only:

            Use a non-top-tier pet? 10 points. Win a round? 10 points. Draw a round? 5 points. Lose a round? 0 points.

            Maybe play two rounds of games, and check all team’s points. If the lowest team isn’t tied with points with the next lowest team, the lowest team is dropped from the competition.

            Rinse and repeat.

            Just a start for an idea to deal with teams and points. This also allows for easy and maybe ‘fair’ inclusion for outliers.

            Non-level 25 pet on opponents team? Win worth -1 point. Opponents team has a top-tier pet? +1 point if you win it (per top-tier pet).

            Whatchya think?

  34. gsv says:

    and similar to a few comments here (only speaking for myself though) I am MUCH more interested in how you played my team than the result… again just sayin…

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      Amen. Although since we are experienced pet battlers, we can mimic choices fairly well. If there was a free copy&paste method for the battlepet log, that’d be a definite yesyes though.

  35. gsv says:

    So after giving this some thought here is my suggestion for a simpler set of rules.

    1) No top or high tier pets allowed.
    2) Best win record wins
    3) In the event of a tie of any sort… equal win records or undefeated teams there is immediate sudden death.

    The only issues I see with this are that; it is a little unfair to high tier pets and it would be unfortunate to run into a top team in an elimination but neither of those is really a deal breaker as far as I am concerned.

    Option 2 (for a little more flavour)

    1) No top tier pets
    2) Slot 1 PotM : Slot 2 high tier or Draenor pet allowed : Slot 3 no high tier or Draenor pet allowed…
    3) Best win record wins
    4) Ties / undefeated go to playoffs… as above.

    I don’t think that there can be a perfect system because by its very nature PvP is complex. Which is why it is challenging. Sometimes people will be unlucky (my team this round lost on flurry RNG. Could it have kept going? We will never know and that is fine… that’s life.)

    Personally I think that the competition needs to stay as simple as possible… so as to keep it fun and make us think of combinations that are unusual and thereby become better PvP battlers (hopefully)

    Winning is nice but I learn more from losing.

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      Top-tier list shouldn’t be prevented, just discouraged (but look at my proposal to fix this issue).

      I also don’t like sudden death. Too RNG, I’d prefer to always run two/three rounds, and then check points again.

  36. gsv says:

    @Sibel – I will tell you what I know first

    1) Running a blog takes a considerable amount of time and effort
    2) People have real lives which also take considerable time and effort
    3) Disco played WAY too many games on this “fun” competition this month, he played too many games last month actually…
    4) As more people learn about the blog this can only get worse

    Now, what I think

    This blog is about pet PvP for all, not just expert battlers. It is there to help and encourage MORE people to try. (if I am incorrect here Disco feel free to correct me)

    Everyone will have an opinion on what is good and bad… favourite things etc… the fact is that there needs to be a simpler less time intensive method… LESS games not more… LESS time involved in working things out not more (assessing team points and quality points, keeping track etc ALL takes time)

    What I suggested isn’t supposed to be the “best” system… there is no “best”… I have simply suggested a system that is much faster, easier and less time consuming for Disco to use…

    P.S. If you were to ask me what I prefer… I would rather have a “gladiator” style comp where we play each other… :) but I can’t see how that would work, EU and US, schedules, too difficult to organise.

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      (It was early when I typed this, I couldn’t stop myself, sorry)

      1) How do you know this 😛 Claiming knowledge of something demands evidence, but I guess you meant a more colloquially ‘realize’ instead of a demonstrated evidence. But on a personal level, I did make one Daily Battle here (as a post, that noone even seems to have read /sadface) and it did take some time to complete, so on that level it’s an acceptable axiom :) – for now 😛

      2) Real lives take time and effort? From my point of view your life takes all your time as it is your life >.< But I reckon you mean friends and family. (Why does Disco need these? He has us on this blog!)

      3) I don't know if it's way too many, but clearly he had to play several each day, and that'd still be enough to more than bridge the time to the next POTM. Compared to me, I'd definitely call it a tremendous amount of games. Disco probably almost has his pet monument now 😛

      4) Not necessarily, people come, people leave. I already spread this website fairly far to people I know, perhaps others here did too. I think only a small percentage of the people on this website post and only a percentage of those join this competition. Attendance did grow compared to the previous POTMs, but I don't agree this means we haven't reached the current top, we might have.

      I also don't think you're necessarily advocating a system that literally costs Disco less time to maintain, just one that's more efficient than it is now. If we were to accept your premises, it may be possible to create a more fair system (I think points-based is the way to go, as it's fairly easy to create an automated spreadsheet for this), however if attendance grows so does time taken.

      I'm not sure how to fix that. I am counting 11 entries this month, to last months 13 (I think?). It simply is a fun little tournament, I am motivated to enter it, you are too. It requires Disco to play the teams, and that can’t really change either.

      Obviously the best way to resolve this would be to have a Disco-clone to play half of the games.

      A tournament that feels fair to the participants will always require a certain number of games to be played before points are checked, but not too many either due to pet choices and overworking-Disco’s. But if we say this point is 4 battles per team before points are checked, that’s alone is already a whopping 50+ games. Which isn’t too horrible I guess for playing many teams, but then lets say you drop the bottom quartile of the teams, leaving you with 7-8ish teams, lets say play them half the previous round’s games so 2, adding 16 games to amount to 70ish games in total, after which you can drop an equal amount of teams leaving you with 4.

      I don’t know gsv, what do you think is a realistic amount of games to play for a POTM? Perhaps we can brainstorm for something with that as starting point?

      • gsv says:

        No I meant “know”… I have been designing sites and blogs for people since the “browser wars” but this is not the forum for that discussion. So email me gsv@webnextgroup.com and I will give you all the proof you like.

        • Sibel from Kazzak says:

          Being a webdesigner is at least something, so from your personal experience you’d say that (creating?) blogs take more time than most people might think, due to your experience behind the scenes.

          PS. You are crazy for adding your e-mail here without adding some bot-proof protection, I feel sad for the spam it might lead to. Usually I split it up within the text I write, so generally only humans (currently :P) are associative enough to connect the dots :)

          PPS. Your experience is evidence for, but not conclusive enough to claim knowledge, but for me this suffices for the current discussion. Nice to get to know a little about your background by the way :)

  37. gsv says:

    P.P.S If having No Top Tier pets seems too restrictive then allow people to use them but only as an “exhibition” team… that way they can see how their team goes but cannot win… still their choice…

    P.P.P.S… my kingdom for the ability to edit…

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      Well, it’s mostly for newer players perhaps. Like that rabbit from last POTM, it didn’t feel like it was intended to do anything sick, it was just a rabbit. It should cost you points, but new players simply may not really have any clue what else to field.

      Of course Disco is an extremely experience pet battler and can possibly single-handedly rape enemy teams with just a rabbit and proper anticipation. (hence the points subtraction).

      PS. Yeah, the edit thing, haha, it’s fine though, it just spams the post feed a bit at times. I have a hand in that as well since I like to reply and discuss >..<

  38. Tekulve says:

    Maybe a Gladiator style competition would work.

    Disco chooses the PotM and 2 secret teammates. He sets a list of banned pets for the month. He plays 3 -5 games vs your comp. and rates the performance… Disco sets his availability times…these games are generally quick.

    For EU- Disco appoints a proxy Game master..there are some EU pros that have posted here.

    I would fully expect to lose vs Disco but it would be intriguing and quick lol

    • gsv says:

      Interesting thoughts there… better than I have been able to come up with… :)

    • Sibel from Kazzak says:

      Doesn’t seem as appealing to me personally. But I enjoy seeing all the different teams, not fighting the same one over and over.

      If you’re going to appoint a gamemaster, why don’t appoint one within the currently existing system for a significant time-investment reduction?

      The current POTM is fun, wouldn’t you agree? Why alter several things when one of your propositions is probably enough to achieve the desired effect without compromising other factors.

  39. Harpua says:

    Y’all have chased him away.

    Honestly, let DD choose how he wants to run the comp. If you have a better idea, fire up your own website. It’s probably not as easy as it looks.

    • gsv says:

      I have not the vaguest interest at all in telling Disco how to run his site. I do think that I should be able to reply to posts that challenge what I say though…

      • Sibel from Kazzak says:

        I don’t think anything has ever been censored here, but it’s hard to see if it is perhaps, haha. You’re one of the prominent people here anyway, gsv, it’s great to have you here from where I’m standing. And not just because you make amazing teams :)

        Between you and me, I think we’re just trying to contribute by brainstorming potential avenues to both maintaining this place without having Disco’s head explode. It’s just a hobby of sorts either way after all, we’re all doing this for fun. Just trying to be useful to us all, right? :)

        Plus Disco has frequently voiced affirmatively to user made suggestions. This place isn’t some stone-slab that can’t change: it’s fun hobby, and I think – and hope – that for Disco too the community [we] are part of the total fun and appeal!

        Great things happen when minds come together after all!

  40. Discodoggy says:

    Thanks for all the concern, praise and good ideas. I’m not thinking too much about this stuff right now, but when I return I will take all the good ideas into consideration.

  41. tekulve says:

    Hiya all
    Check out the new Periwinkle calf pet coming in 6.2
    Beast pet
    1563hp/276pwr/260 speed
    It has stoneskin-a stun and either takedown..or even better..deep bite

    If one prefers to try their rng luck, they could take headbutt..wait for a proc then use takedown and not use clobber in the middle slot but tail slap instead to hurt elementals

    Seems pretty versatile

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